Home » Jazz Articles » Interview » Michala ?stergaard-Nielsen: The Poetic Vibrations of Drumming
Michala ?stergaard-Nielsen: The Poetic Vibrations of Drumming
Courtesy Erik Sj?str?m
She plays with an intense presence that challenges me to always focus on the core in the music and what can make it a magical experience
—Sofie Norling
Gerald Cleaver
drumsb.1963
?stergaard-Nielsen had classical training on the piano before becoming interested in jazz while in school, then switching to drums, which she had to practice for nine years before being admitted to a conservatory in Stockholm. In Denmark, she followed down the path laid by women jazz drummers such as
Marilyn Mazur
percussionb.1955
Lisbeth Diers
percussion
Marilyn Crispell
pianob.1947
Thommy Andersson
bass
David's Angels
vocals
Bob Moses
drumsb.1948
Because of the manner in which ?stergaard-Nielsen combines playfulness with passion in her drumming, the way she both galvanizes the moment and anticipates what is coming, her drumming may constitute the perfect salute to Nordic jazz percussion. With her sitting behind the drums and cymbals, that unheralded kit that is often designated as support for the leading players, she invades the playing field while still offering the timing. When her devotion to the music is enlivened by audacity, and the beat refuses to be limited to conventional expression, well, anything can happen.
Her talent and contributions were recognized at the National Jazz Gala in Halmstad as the first Dane to receive the Swedish Jazz Award "Jazzkannan" in 2018 for her innovative efforts in jazz music, with the following motivation: "Michala ?stergaard-Nielsen, in many ways, personifies the heart of improvised music with her rare talent for highlighting the musical exchange in the room. She is attuned to both her fellow musicians and the audience, absorbing the energy and transforming it into highly personal, storytelling sounds." Her second album with her quartet—More Stories from the Village (BoogiePost Recordings, 2016) made the Best of the Year list by Johannes Cornell in Dagens Nyheter/Sweden and another by Eyal Hareuveni/Free jazz blog.
On Traces (Kopasetic Productions, 2017), the expressive third album from David's Angels, the group delves into how karmic actions leave traces in time through the poetic voicings of Sofie Norling, who ?stergaard-Nielsen also collaborates with in Nuaia. When asked for comment, Norling wrote: "Working with Michala in David's Angels and Nuaia is such an expanding and developing experience. She plays with an intense presence that challenges me to always focus on the core in the music and what can make it a magical experience with the musicians and the audiences. As a singer it is very valuable to play with a drummer who deeply respects the storytelling in the music and phrases around the lyrics to lift it, a music flow you want to come back to over and over again. When you find a drummer like that you've created a relationship as a singer that stays for life."
Of all the various combos as leader or side-woman, ?stergaard-Nielsen emailed afterwards about a completely new free improv collective called Aldrig i Livet. "It would translate as Never in My Life or Never Ever, a playful name for a free improv group with two drummers," she wrote aside an emoticon. Others in the quartet include " data-original-title="" title="">Jesper Zeuthen: saxophone; Martin Nilsson: guitar; Thomas Pr?stegaard: drums and vibraphone.
In the following interview, she discusses her beginnings through several schools to her mentors, projects past and present and what the future holds. "It felt so strange not to mention the huge inspiration I received from two more drummers," she said contritely, and included this quotation from a UK website: "?stergaard-Nielsen cites influences like
Paul Motian
drums1931 - 2011
Jon Christensen
drums1943 - 2020
Michala ?stergaard-Nielsen: It's raining here today in a small village North of Copenhagen. The country needs it. I was born South of Zealand, about 60 kilometers from Copenhagen. I used to live in the city but when my daughter came—she is eight years old now—we moved to the country. I miss the city but you can't have both.
All About Jazz: What was it like for you in the home as a young girl?
MON: My dad was a classical pianist, so I was raised on piano. I changed to drums when I was 20. I was attending a pre-conservatory course for three years on jazz piano, and the third year it was said I should choose a second instrument. In fact, on my birthday, I had my first lesson, and to have some music to play to I chose "Roxanne." I felt this deep insight that I have to play drums instead and it was not because I was not having fun playing the piano. So, then after I finished the course in the spring, I moved to Copenhagen and started to practice drums while working as a music teacher two days a week and living together in a collective communion with other young people.
AAJ: Drums are usually not the instrument of choice for a young woman, especially since it must have been in the '90s.
MON: 1995 actually, and there weren't many women playing jazz drums, though there were more in those times here because it is something of a tradition in Denmark. There was Marilyn Mazur and Lisbeth Diers, who was very young. It was sense you get very few times in your life. And it was also difficult to change at that point because all my friends went on to the conservatory and I would have to start all over again. I could take a lot of what I had learned as a pianist with me into the drums. Still, it is a completely different instrument. At 29, I started at the conservatory in Stockholm. I had to practice drums for nine years before I went to Sweden.
AAJ: As my t'ai chi master would contend, it takes ten years of practice to become proficient. You can learn the forms, but you do not know the forms.
MON: Precisely, it's the same for the drums. You have the coordination the same as at the piano, but still there's the technical stuff and also having another role in the band that you have to get used to. For many years, even though I was playing drums more, I felt like a pianist because it was not natural because I started out as a pianist at six years. With the drums, I felt it was more ambitious than just playing when you are a child.
AAJ: As a drummer, you are more in the background of a group whereas with piano you are out front. How did that feel to you?
MON: To be honest, I never thought about that. No. It was the right instrument for me to choose, But I think you get so much attention being a female drummer. So, when I started to be professional musician, somebody told me, oh, that was very nice drumming. Do you also sing?
AAJ: Many female jazz musicians were singers in those years and not as many played instruments. But the gender imbalance, so to speak, maybe is over now. There are many women playing jazz with all sorts of different instruments.
MON: Yes, this is much better for women now. When I was 23, I also went to New York for half a year, and I attended the drama collective because a lot of Danes has studied there. I shared a studio apartment in Manhattan with three other drummers, and we had this rule that we could practice until two o'clock in the night and then we wanted to sleep. It was beautiful but also difficult because in some ways I should have been somewhere else and taking private lessons.
AAJ: From an early age until nearly thirty, you have had music with you constantly.
MON: My dad isn't living anymore, but he helped me so much. And later, he was also very curious about all the things that I did and the records. He listened to everything and even though he was classically trained, he couldn't listen to symphonies anymore and began to listen to more traditional jazz even though I came home with more avant-garde and experimental music. He listened to all of it and was very curious, though I think all this openness was because he just wanted to know what I was doing.
AAJ: Do you remember your first awareness of jazz?
MON: I went to a concert in Bordenholme, South of Zealand where I grew up. There were professional jazz musicians, and this was just mind-blowing. Then I went to my piano teacher and said: I want to learn how to play jazz. He was very much into Brazilian and jazz music, so we did that instead of the classical.
AAJ: Was the transition from classical to jazz difficult in any way?
MON: It was easy for me at first because I am very good at reading, but the solos were not easy for me. I listened to a lot of American records like
Wynton Kelly
piano1931 - 1971
Elvin Jones
drums1927 - 2004
Max Roach
drums1925 - 2007
Tony Williams
drums1945 - 1997
AAJ: How would you describe the difference between American and Danish jazz from Nordic jazz?
MON: The tonality language is different. I love to listen to bebop, but I very feel home with the Nordic culture and that language. Besides the sound of it, there's more space as well. And I also have been very interested in classical music and classical composition techniques. Using this kind of language and tonality in my writing is in some ways combined with the European tradition, not western classical or modern music. When I was young, I tried writing music about how medieval music might have sounded in the thirteenth century. How would the French and German music sound in Denmark? There is more silence in it, and the way of playing it is closer to Danish folk songs.
AAJ: How would you characterize the role of a drummer in a jazz combo?
MON: Of course, you must take care of the rhythm and the pulse, but also, I think a lot about sound. A big difference for me came when I had a lesson with Gerald Cleaver, the American drummer. This was when I was 30 or 31 and I lived in New York for the second time. He told me that you can play upon sound or you can play upon patterns. That very much made a difference to me because of course, you play on both sounds and patterns. That really opened the doors to not think just the technical things, but listen to it as a sound. So, when I play drums, I listen to the cymbal sounds, like if you play with a saxophonist and then the pianist is doing the solo change. I listen to the range of the sound and how it fits to the pulse of the rest of the band. In a way you are a function, but I think it's the most beautiful when you're not a function, but you're a musician as well, so you don't need to keep the structure all the time. You could be freer like all the other musicians. That's what I really like about playing totally free music because then you don't have to be a function that much.
AAJ: When you speak of patterns, what do you mean? Is it like arpeggios on a chordal instrument?
MON: Yes, it can be triplets and this kind of thing. I listen a lot to Max Roach because he has both in the most beautiful way and still is so melodic. And then from Tony Williams, the expressive way he plays. I had another lesson when I was older with
Milford Graves
drums1940 - 2021
AAJ: Interesting that you mention timing. I read an interview with
Jack DeJohnette
drumsb.1942
MON: I think so maybe, but then you have to transform or do something with the timing. I think you can hear that in his playing, that he has transformed his timing. When I play with Marilyn (Crispell), she has her time and that's her time. There's not a metronome or objective unit. I also play a lot with
Marc Ducret
guitarb.1957
Bob Moses
drumsb.1948
AAJ: Tell me about your experiences playing with Moses?
MON: The first time I played with Bob Moses, it was some years ago. He was having a residency in Copenhagen, and he was a little bit scary. I had a cymbal that is broken, and we had a recording session. He put together a band with a Danish musician he wants to make a record with and some saxophone and bass players. Bob came to me and said he didn't really like this cymbal. We were going to be in the recording studio, so I had to call a friend and ask how to deal with this. My friend said I just have to be open to what Bob Moses says and then trust in your own thing. I really found the balance in this. After the tour, Bob was very happy that I found a way to do it. He said we should play my music and one from my guitarist, Martin Nilsson's music. Bob said, I don't want to rehearse, maybe because he had rehearsed a lot and wanted to be more free in his playing. Nowadays, his playing is free and organic and so melodic. When the two of us play, everything feels so alive, like the snow never stopping. He always shows me something when we Facetime. You just have to be with the flow and become a much better player.
AAJ: Have you ever considered doing an album of rearranging jazz standards?
MON: I've thought about that and someday I will. Now we have the recording with Marilyn (Crispell), and we've already recorded the next album. We are going on tour in 2026, and I think we will record that, too. Then I have some ideas I've been collecting for my own composition, but one year. There are many beautiful standards I love, and it could be very interesting.
AAJ: Give me an example of one you like.
MON: There is one ballad I am thinking of, yes, "I Fall in Love Too Easily." I love very much
Wayne Shorter
saxophone1933 - 2023
Cole Porter
composer / conductor1891 - 1964
AAJ: You have so many different bands and combinations and duos and trios that you've been recording with or performing, it's hard to even count them all. Could you describe the character of the jazz you perform with some of these bands, like your quartet, for example, the ?stergaard Art Quartet?
MON: That's free, improvised music, right in the moment. We've had two albums. We are all very lyrical, melodic players, so sometimes you couldn't know if it was a written composition or it was a free improvised music because there was so much melody in it. When I made the first album—Stories from The Village (BoogiePost Recordings, 2011)—I did a lot of editing. Of course, I didn't put things in, just around from there to there, and made it melodic, very atmospheric music.
"
data-original-title="" title="">Per Jorgensen, the trumpet and darbouka player, also sings beautifully on some of the tracks. We have Marc Ducret on guitar and Kasper Tranberg
trumpetAAJ: What can you tell me about the group " data-original-title="" title="">Nuaia?
MON: That one is a collective Swedish/Danish band that's with the Swedish singer, Sofie Norling and the guitar and electronic guy,
Mika Forsling
guitarAAJ: Sofie Norling is with you in the David's Angels group as well.
MON: This one has written music. We don't have any sheet music in Nuaia; we have the ideas. Even though there is a structure in the count, the music is more soundscapes or electronic. David's Angels is the more vocal-based jazz quartet with the Canadian trumpet player
Ingrid Jensen
trumpetb.1966
David Carlsson
bass, electricb.1969
AAJ: Another one is Tusind og én nat, which I've discovered is music from fairytales.
MON: Yes, that's right. There was a new translation of One Thousand and One Nights (The Arabian Nights in English) fairytales in Danish some years ago. I have it at home and have read, not all of them, maybe twenty. Then I composed music from them for jazz band. The famous actress Ellen Hillings?e is the storyteller Shahrazád. We set them to music, which is sung by
Josefine Cronholm
vocalsAAJ: What other projects do you have on the horizon?
MON: You have heard the new one this year (The Cave), and I can tell you about the next already, which I'm almost sure will have the name We Are All Travelers because the guitarist, Marc Ducros, we played together last year in Austria. We traveled on the train together, and he told me about the summer before he had been walking for three weeks alone in the forest without anything, just with a map. We had two hours to the venue and two hours back again to Vienna, and he told me the whole story. He didn't meet anybody, just was in silence, and I was so inspired by that. Then I came home, and it was two months before I had to travel on the tour with Marilyn (Crispell) and Thommy Andersson last year. I wrote the music in two weeks, all coming out of this inspiration. The songs are called "The Traveler," "The Path," "The Silence" and "The Caravan."
AAJ: We should talk more about The Cave. Start with the beautiful last track, "A Smile of a Butterfly."
MON: First, I want to say something about Marilyn Crispell. We met in 2018 and have played two tours together. She is very intense and takes her time doing things. On tour if we have to get up at six o'clock, she is up at three o'clock practicing. It seems like she is aware of everything. The first time we played I was nervous, but when I got to know her a little better, by the second time it felt more relaxed and got deeper into the music. You have to tune into the music, relax and just touching the drums to connect with Marilyn. She never changes. She just goes to the piano and is completely into it. She's not slow. That's not the right word. She is patient. When I play with Bob Moses, it's the same thing. He's also very into the music, Let me tell you about "The Cave" first. In fact, this is a tune that is in the fairytales, the One Thousand and One Nights. We sang it when Ali Baba wants the treasure that is in the cave. He can't get out because he doesn't remember what to say.
AAJ: Yes, I remember he heard the thieves say the magic words, "Open Sesame"!
MON: We sung that with the jazz band, but for the trio it was just a piano piece. Then "A Smile of a Butterfly," I wrote this tune many years ago when I was starting in a school in Sweden. One of the assignments was that we should make a tune out of the Dorian scale.
AAJ: Did you imagine the butterfly was smiling?
MON: Yes, but I was not very good at it and said I'm never doing this again. I was unhappy in love back then. There is a version on Soundcloud with a Swedish singer,
Lindha Kallerdahl
vocalsAAJ: "My Spirit Heart" is a striking piece. What can you say about that one?
MON: That's a funny story because I wrote that tune when I was 20 years old and also unhappy in love. In some way, this tune came out of sometimes, not very often in your life, you have this sense that something is happening ahead of you. You really don't get what is happening. This is the feeling I had with this tune.
AAJ: That would be similar to foreshadowing your preoccupation with composing a jazz tune.
MON: Maybe that's a better word. It just came from a place where I was more mature than I was at 20. But the title was not that mature—"My Spirit Heart." And I tried to change it because I really think it's a title that may be more like the 20-year-old girl than a grown-up woman. I talked to Marilyn about it, and she said you can say that in English without sounding silly.
AAJ: Have you ever played a tour in America?
MON: Yes, I played with David's Angels at the Rochester Festival and also at the festival in Vancouver. And I played in Washington at the Kennedy Center. This was 2011 to 2013 or '14. There was a Nordic invasion, culture invasion in the States back at that time. We were part of that.
AAJ: What would you say have been the highlights so far of your career?
MON: First of all, when I was 20 years old and playing the drums for the first time, this deep feeling of I have to do this was a memorable moment I will never forget. Then at the start to become a professional, back in 2011 or '12, I really remember the flow. Having this quartet with Marc Ducros was really everything, and I'm very happy about it. And of course, meeting Bob Moses. Then making a recording with
Thomas Morgan
bass, acousticAAJ: Is there something in particular you would like to explore in the future?
AAJ: I really feel now that I would love to play more. There were some years where I didn't play that much because my Hannah was small, not that old, and I wanted to stay home more. Now she grows older, so I would love to play with different musicians and compose music in different settings. I would love to write for a big band or with classical musicians. I would love to do rearrangement of standards. Some years ago, I was starting at the conservatory in Copenhagen as a soloist for postgraduate diploma. I made a sound piece that is called "Can You Listen to Death?" I would like to do something with that as well, maybe in different museums or art exhibitions. Most importantly, I want to have the time to practice more. There are a lot of technical things I want to be better at.
AAJ: That sounds very ambitious. Is there a musician that you would like to have the opportunity to play with?
MON: Definitely,
Joe Lovano
drumsb.1952
AAJ: You have lived and traveled many places around the world. Do you have a favorite city or country?
MON: New York is very special. But I was so young when I lived there. The first time I came at 23, I took a taxi from the airport into Manhattan. I remember just being young and everything is open and going on and seeing the skyline, my heart just opened. It was like freedom, laughing. The vibe is so strong. The first time I was there for half a year, it was very much up and down because it was so strong and I was not very grounded. There was so much inspiration. The level of energy is so high, and I was struggling at the Collective because I only have played for three years. But when I came back eight years after, I rented a practice room and played every morning, three hours, four hours before going out. I was living in Brooklyn, and it was much more grounded way of being in New York. It was like all your system just got a boost of energy and inspiration. Going to the Village Vanguard, to Birdland, to Harlem, to be a part of what we call the Sunday morning into the church and all the museums. I just loved everything about New York, everything I like about being a musician together in one place. It's a wonderful place to be, but Denmark is in my soul.
Tags
Interview
Michala ?stergaard-Nielsen
dean nardi
Gerald Cleaver
Marilyn Mazur
Lisbeth Diers
Marilyn Crispell
Thommy Andersson
?stergaard Art Quartet
Nuaia
David's Angels
Midairconbo
Ra-Kalam Bob Moses
Martin Nilsson
Thomas Pr?stegaard
Paul Motian
Jon Christensen
Wynton Kelly
Elvin Jones
Max Roach
Tony Williams
Milford Graves
Jack DeJohnette
Marc Ducret
Wayne Shorter
Cole Porter
Per J?rgensen
Kasper Traberg
Mika Forsling
Ingrid Jensen
Maggi Olin
David Carlsson
Josefine Cronholm
Lindha Kallerdahl
Thomas Morgan
joe lovano
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