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Michael Bisio: Stepping Into the Limelight
In some perverse way the term free jazz has been used for both charlatan and genius practitioners. There is obviously an immense difference. Why the same word?
Matthew Shipp
pianob.1960
Tomas Ulrich
cellob.1958
All About Jazz: What made you take up the bass?
Michael Bisio: I first played electric bass. My older brother was the local
Jimi Hendrix
guitar, electric1942 - 1970
Rufus Reid
bass, acousticb.1944
AAJ: I understand you also were involved with
Bill Smith
trombone1926 - 2020
Stuart Dempster
tromboneMB: Actually, while studying with Jim, at the University of Washington, I also worked and studied with Bill and Stuart. At this time I also bonded with fellow student Bob Nell. So there were three people who had a major impact on me there. Bill, of course, is widely known as a member of
Dave Brubeck
piano1920 - 2012
Joe McPhee
woodwindsb.1939
AAJ: I understand that the great bassist
Buddy Catlett
bass, acoustic1933 - 2014
MB: For a dozen years I lived in the same neighborhood as Buddy. He is a musical giant and a very generous spirit. A very short list of his musical associations include 
Louis Armstrong
trumpet and vocals1901 - 1971
Count Basie
piano1904 - 1984
Quincy Jones
arranger1933 - 2024
Mary Lou Williams
piano1910 - 1981
All this reminds me of a story that involved Buddy. For many years, probably 15, I played exclusively gut strings. (During the first years it was not as popular as it got to be, hardly anyone was doing it.) One spring day, an unusually gorgeous spring day for Seattle, my family and I were spring cleaning, windows wide open, no screens. 
John Coltrane
saxophone1926 - 1967
AAJ: He sounds like a fantastic, ideal cat to hang with and learn from. Do you still use gut strings? Is it how they respond to bowing that you like?
MB: I no longer use guts—the biggest reason being that they are very affected by climatic conditions. The more I traveled the larger a problem it became.
The thing I loved best about guts was the feel—large, round, and bouncy., an unbeatable combination for me. I loved the sound, very much at the front of each note, especially in the lower to mid registers. As one gets into the upper registers sound becomes an issue, especially during arco passages. That being said, in a textural sense they are wonderful for splitting partials.
There are some really good substitutes on the market today. Barrie Kolstein makes a Heritage line which I really love and have been using for more than five years now. They sound beautiful.
AAJ: How would you sum up this period in terms of your musical development?
MB: In retrospect, the Northwest allowed me to develop within the tradition of this great music, in what I believe were its original intentions and spirit: to know its history, search for the future and to develop your own voice. I did not need to fall prey to fads, I didn't have to choose between being a jazz or creative musician. They were and are the same.
I do not want to convey that I was universally accepted at this time. I did have strong, positive influences which sustained me. There were also less than positive sentiments and many times puzzlement regarding my direction.
AAJ: While all this was happening you were, no doubt, involved in listening as well as playing. What players or what styles caught your ear? Obviously with Smith and Dempster you took a big step into the adventurous zone of the music, but I'm curious if there was a point where listening to particular cats effected you.
MB: My listening evolved probably like most people: you jump into this music at some point that really resonates with your being, then move forward and backward in time from that point. For me there were really two points, the music of
Ornette Coleman
saxophone, alto1930 - 2015
Charles Mingus
bass, acoustic1922 - 1979
AAJ: So at that point you began to branch out, forming new alliances with players and using Seattle as your home base. Could you talk a little about this phase of your career? What were to you the significant recordings you made then? Any early experience as a leader or did that come later?
MB: The phenomenal trumpeter, Barbara Donald
trumpet and vocalsb.1942
Being in her band was a monumental experience, certainly a primal part of who I am. She was a superb musician, a creative force, always pushing to find the spiritual aspects of music. "Energy, Energy, Energy!" was her most frequent exhortation. I was doubly lucky during those years to share the bandstand with the legendary and universally loved " data-original-title="" title="">Carter Jefferson, (who also played with
Woody Shaw
trumpet1944 - 1989
Elvin Jones
drums1927 - 2004
He was a master of positive phrasing, with or without the saxophone. "Beez, you're a bad motherfucker but you got to stand in front of a mirror six hours a day and say 'I'm a bad motherfucker, I'm a bad motherfucker,'" he'd tell me. This band (Barbara Donald and Unity) was rounded out with another great tenorist, Gary Hammon, Irvin LoVillet on drums and
Peggy Stern
pianoMy first LP as a leader, Ours (CT Records), was released that same year. It featured the remarkable Northwest players, Rick Mandyck [sax}, Ron Soderstrum [trumpet]}, Beth Chandler [violin],
John Bishop
drumsb.1959
AAJ: Were there any drawbacks to making a start in the Northwest?
MB: There were many musical benefits that proved crucial to me but from a career perspective it has made recognition come a bit more slowly. Most creative musicians on the west coast have found that music from the region does not get the attention it deserves. The world still perceives New York City as the center of this music, and tends to be less aware of developments/talent in other areas of the country. Access to the world at large seems more difficult. A humorous example: somewhat more than ten years ago was my first trip to France, with Joe McPhee's
Albert Ayler
saxophone, tenor1936 - 1970
It's one thing to create a name for yourself elsewhere, and then move to the Pacific Northwest; it's rather another thing to create a name from there. It's just harder. It's something to overcome.
AAJ: So, regardless, you became involved in a regular gigging situation. Could you talk about your early experience on the bandstand and in the studios a little more? What was it like for you?
MB: I have been a working bassist since I was 19. David Cobb, my first teacher, was very much into everyone working as much as possible. The Northeast US, especially New England, has (or had) many small orchestras mostly populated by doctors, lawyers, and other professionals who had varying musical abilities. They always needed bassists, so David would farm us out for what seemed like a princely sum in those days. In fact, Bennington College, where I now teach, was the location of my first professional chamber music gig. My early professional days in Seattle were marked by a variety of work. I would go from subbing in the Seattle Symphony to playing Skippers (a club) with the great saxophonist Lonnie Williams. I played pit orchestras, when my son was a newborn I was playing Woman of the Year, starring Lauren Bacall. I played weddings with Tuxedo Junction, for a season I was principal bass for the Northwest Chamber Orchestra, Barbara Donald and Unity would have busy periods; I even cruised...once.
I was a freelance musician, a hired gun. All the while there was the pull of this wonderful music, which I did have the opportunity to play as much as anyone in Seattle. By this time I always had my own band and was a member of others. I can remember being on a screaming gig in Bellingham, WA, with the legendary pianist
Alan Hood
trumpetb.1964
AAJ: At what point did you feel comfortable with a total commitment to your own musical vision as a way of life?
MB: By my early thirties my direction was clear and I began to resent having to do all those things whose sum made my living. Funny the different things which stand out every time you revisit the past. At some point, I just walked away from doing all those things to concentrate on that thing that retained its meaning.
AAJ: When did you start composing?
MB: I have composed almost as long as I have played music. Both my bass teachers always encouraged me to solve my own problems, and handed me the tools to accomplish this. In the beginning I wrote exercises and etudes aimed at addressing my many problems, both technical and musical. I doubt I even thought of it as composing at the time.
My first documented compositions show up on Ours. They are: "Ours," "Pabio," and "Charles Too!" "Ours" was originally written for Carter Jefferson and {Gary Hammond}}. It is a long song form, 64 bars. "Pabio" I wrote for my father, who signs his stained-glass art with this shortened form of his name. The song was rerecorded many years later by the fabulous Tomas Ulrich for his CIMP release Tomas Ulrich's Cargo Cult (2009). "Charles Too!" is an elegy for Charles Mingus, almost simultaneously released on Ours and The Past and Tomorrows. It also makes my favorite appearance on Composance (2004), a trio release under my leadership on Cadence Records featuring the incomparable trumpeter" data-original-title="" title="">Rob Blakeslee and the uniquely percussive—by that I mean he's also a bitchin' French horn player—and wonderful Greg Campbell, on drums.
During this early period, my compositions mostly carried people's names and/or reference people who were important to me. The pieces are very direct and bound to the moment. This carried me to the late '90s. One of the last tunes I can recall in this vein is "Grimes, Henry Grimes," composed in 1996 for the not-then resurrected bass giant, and meant to be spoken like James Bond would introduce himself. This piece can be found on my quintet CD Undulations (OmniTone, 2000).
AAJ: What was happening in the years following your initial associations with Donald, Smith, and Dempster? MB: In 1986, I led a band at the first-ever Earshot Jazz Festival, then a fledgling organization founded by Paul DeBarros and the late Gary Bannister. Earshot has continued to flourish for many years under John Gilbreath. By the late '80s I was working with recent Northwest arrival
Wayne Horvitz
keyboardsb.1955
Vinny Golia
woodwindsb.1946
By the early '90s I was occasionally making forays to the east coast for various small Hits, and in 1993 made my first west coast tour with
Charles Gayle
saxophone1939 - 2023
Michael Bisio (left) with Stephen Gauci (right)
The dawn of the 21st century saw more opportunities in the east and beyond. I was invited to play
Diedre Murray
cello
Joe Giardullo
saxophoneJoe Giardullo
saxophoneFor the next couple of years, a lot of my musical activity on the east coast centered on Joe Giardullo's Quartet and Joe McPhee's Bluette. The Bluette was a two-bass, two- wind unit with
Dominic Duval
bass1945 - 2016
Back on the west coast, I continued my collaborations with some wonderful artists like Michael Vlatkovich, Rob Blakeslee,
Wally Shoup
saxophoneb.1944
AAJ: And at this point your own group became a large part of your focus?
MB: Yes. My current quartet—with
Jay Rosen
drumsb.1961
Avram Fefer
saxophoneAAJ: Tell us a little about the other important associations you formed in this latest period.
MB: My time on the east coast, in particular New York City, has been filled with tremendous growth and collaborations that are the stuff of dreams. Special events that stand out include: Matthew Shipp's Sacred Geometry and PostModern Jazz Quartet, Michael Bisio Quartet at Vision Festival XII, 
Jason Kao Hwang
composer / conductorb.1957
William Parker
bassb.1952
Henry Grimes
bass, acoustic1935 - 2020
Sunny Murray
drums1937 - 2017
Rashied Ali
drums1935 - 2009
Karl Berger
vibraphone1935 - 2023
Warren Smith
drumsb.1934
Connie Crothers
piano1941 - 2016
About a year ago, Matthew Shipp asked me to join his trio, which includes the great
Whit Dickey
drumsI have just completed my first solo effort, Travel Music (Self Produced, 2011). This is a very exciting project for me and the first I hav e decided to oversee every aspect of its production. It was recorded beautifully by Ted Orr at Sertso Studios in Woodstock, NY during two sessions one month apart. The reaction of friends who have heard it is very encouraging. It is now available.
AAJ: I know you don't really like the term "free," as applied to your music. Could you tell us what bothers you about the word, and how the music is best described?
MB: You are right. I don't like the term in relation to my music. There is of course nothing wrong with the word itself. The problem for me is it has become a term used to marginalize the music and the artists.
In some perverse way, the term has been used for both charlatan and genius practitioners. There is obviously an immense difference. Why the same word? To me free, at its best, implies the largest amount of responsibility, because there is really only freedom of choice. An artist needs as large a vocabulary as possible to be able to express as exactly as possible what is in his or her heart, mind, spirit and body. AAJ: What do you see happening in the music as it evolves? Where do you see the music going in the next 20 years?
MB: Music, for me ,is about the act of creation, the positive sounds, energy, feeling and healing released at the point of departure. I don't have an idea about how music will evolve. But I am pretty comfortable being part of the evolution of the revolution in music. No matter where it goes, I believe these attributes will always be at the center for me.
Selected Discography
Michael Bisio, Travel Music (MJB, 2011)
Bob Gluck, Returning (FMR, 2011)
Matthew Shipp, The Art of the Improviser (Thirsty Ear, 2011)
Thomas Ulrich's Cargo Cult, Discoveries (CIMP, 2011)
SKM, Three (Clean Feed, 2010)
Connie Crothers & Michael Bisio, Session at 475 Kent (Mutable Music, 2010)
Thomas Ulrich's Cargo Cult, Lonely House (CIMP, 2010)
David Arner, Porgy and Bess, Act One, Act Two (Cadence 2009, 2010)
Joe McPhee, Angels, Devils and Haints (Cadence, 2009)
Michael Bisio, Collar City Creatology (MJB, 2009)
Michael Bisio, Live at Vision Fest. XII (Not Two, 2009)
Thomas Ulrich's Cargo Cult, Thomas Ulrich's Cargo Cult (CIMP, 2009)
Michael Bisio, AM (CIMP, 2009)
Stephen Gauci, Basso Continuo (Clean Feed, 2008)
Michael Bisio, Connections (CIMP, 2005)
John Heward, Let Them Pass (Drimala, 2004)
Michael Bisio, Composance (Cadence, 2004)
Joe McPhee, Let Paul Robeson Sing (CIMP 2002)
Joe Giardullo, Shadow and Light (Drimala, 2002)
Michael Bisio, Undulations (Omnitone, 2000)
Joe McPhee & Michael Bisio, Zebulon (CIMP, 1999)
Joe McPhee & Michael Bisio, Finger Wigglers (CIMP, 1997)
Michael Bisio, Covert Choreography (Cadence, 1996)
Joe McPhee, Common Threads (Deep Listening, 1996)
Michael Bisio, In Seattle (Silkheart, 1988)
Photo Credits
Page 1: Frank Rubolino
Pages 2, 3: Ben Stimler
Page 4: John Sharpe
Page 5: Scott Friedlander
Page 6: Peter Gannushkin
Tags
Michael Bisio
Interview
Gregory Applegate Edwards
United States
Matthew Shipp
Tomas Ulrich
Jimi Hendrix
Rufus Reid
Bill Smith
Stuart Dempster
Dave Brubeck
Joe McPhee
Bob Nell
Buddy Catlett
Louis Armstrong
Count Basie
Quincy Jones
Mary Lou Williams
John Coltrane
Ornette Coleman
Charles Mingus
Barbara Donald
Carter Jefferson
Woody Shaw
Elvin Jones
Peggy Stern
John Bishop
Albert Ayler
Al Hood
Rob Blakeslee
Wayne Horvitz
Vinny Golia
Charles Gayle
Diedre Murray
Joe Giardullo
dominic duval
Wally Shoup
Jay Rosen
Avram Fefer
Jason Kao Hwang
William Parker
Henry Grimes
Sunny Murray
Rashied Ali
Karl Berger
Warren Smith
Connie Crothers
Whit Dickey
Frank Rubolino
Peter Gannushkin
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