Home » Jazz Articles » SoCal Jazz » Peter Erskine: Up Front, In Time, and On Call, Part 1
Peter Erskine: Up Front, In Time, and On Call, Part 1
The goal, in addition to being spontaneous and just playing, was to keep out of the way of the sound.
—Peter Erskine
Peter Erskine
drumsb.1954
Weather Report
band / ensemble / orchestra
Steps Ahead
band / ensemble / orchestrab.1979
Stan Kenton
piano1911 - 1979
Maynard Ferguson
trumpet1928 - 2006
All About Jazz: You have a large fan base derived from your many years as a successful jazz and fusion drummer. However, many may not know about your affiliation with The Thornton School of Music at USC. Perhaps you could take that one from the top.
Peter Erskine: I went to high school in Interlochen, Michigan, at a place called Interlochen Arts Academy. It's in the far north of Michigan. I grew up in New Jersey and was used to cold weather, but nothing like Michigan had to offer. Interlochen was a boarding school. So, I found myself away from home, plucked from my home environment when I was fourteen. I spent three years up there and was snowbound much of the time. Consequently, there wasn't much else to do other than to study, practice, and spend time with your girlfriend.
AAJ: If one was so fortunate.
PE: Indeed. It was an incredibly nurturing place, not only because of the teachers there and the way it was setup, but because the teachers and fellow students really constituted my family. I had my weekly phone calls with my mom and dad, of course. I had a very nurturing environment growing up, particularly in terms of education. My father had always encouraged me to ask a lot of questions. He believed in the adage that there are no dumb questions. He was very supportive. I think this all planted an early seed for my becoming a teacher down the road. I eventually went on the road with Stan Kenton's band when I was eighteen. Much of that was centered around what they called clinics. Afternoon educational presentations at whatever school we were at prior to a performance in the evening. A rhythm section specific class or something of that nature with area students. This began to make me very comfortable in terms of speaking to a group of students. I found that I was able to present in a way that was inviting and made them want to learn more. Some of that was just seeing the success or failure of how some of the other musicians in the band handled questions. I saw that if students weren't asking questions it was generally just a function of being shy, their brain just being jumbled, or not wanting to be the first one to raise their hand or something of this nature. It has much to do with establishing a comfort level whether it's an audience of one, or an audience of many.
In the drum industry, more than any other instrumental area, teaching is a big part of our extracurricular activities. The idea of teaching full time wasn't something I was looking to do. USC reached out back in 2000 regarding some part-time instruction, and I figured, why not? Pianist
Shelly Berg
piano
Diana Krall
piano and vocalsb.1964
Charles Fambrough
bass1950 - 2011
Joe Zawinul
keyboards1932 - 2007
AAJ: What is your current position and job title?
PE: I am a full professor and the title is Professor of Practice. I enjoy the university, the faculty, and the students. Los Angeles is still a very fertile music scene. Both creatively, and with people being able to work. Sometimes it might not be the most creative film or TV score, or rank up there with the most aesthetically pleasing things you have done in your life, but it's still good.
AAJ: It's still work.
PE: It's still work. Years ago, I remember Manfred Eicher at ECM telling me that he didn't like me doing so many things. You know, here I am doing a Honey Nut Cheerios commercial or making a record with this singer or that person. But, you know, every experience informs the next, and secondly, here I am with a wife and two kids and private schools, etc. On top of that, it's my craft. I love the craft of playing, whether it's the Crazy Rich Asians, or La La Land, or The Secret Life of Pets, or whatever.
AAJ: Why was he opposed to you doing these things?
PE: He wanted me to have my head in the musical clouds where he spent most of his time. It may have been great if I had followed his advice, who knows? But I don't live in Europe, I live in LA. Maybe in Europe it would be a more practical thing to do, but not here. I like going in and doing the big band thing or playing a surf beat for Honey Nut Cheerios or a variety of things. I like that variety and none of them are easy things to do.
AAJ: What is the most gratifying part of teaching?
PE: That moment when you see the lightbulb go off. The moment when they gain an understanding. That makes the day for me. If I am lucky that might happen two or three times during a teaching day. The school serves as a magnet for a cross section of outstanding musicians. USC has an incredible faculty. The chair of the department is saxophonist
Bob Mintzer
saxophoneb.1953
Alan Pasqua
pianob.1952
Darek Oles
bassb.1963
Will Kennedy
drums
Patrice Rushen
keyboardsb.1954
Alphonso Johnson
bassb.1951
Paul Jackson Jr
guitarb.1959
AAJ: What is the single most important thing for young musicians to focus on?
PE: To listen. I don't mean to just listen to the music while there on the bandstand playing. To listen and learn the language so that you can speak the vocabulary. To learn the history of it all. I was a very avid listener when I was young. But I was wanting, there were huge gaps. I'm still not over the embarrassment and shame of doing a Downbeat blindfold test and not knowing that it was drummer
Chick Webb
drums1905 - 1939
Jon Faddis
trumpetb.1953
Wynton Marsalis
trumpetb.1961
Duke Ellington
piano1899 - 1974
Woody Herman
band / ensemble / orchestra1913 - 1987
Maynard Ferguson
trumpet1928 - 2006
Count Basie
piano1904 - 1984
AAJ: A valuable part of your education as a young musician was at the Stan Kenton jazz camps. I have spoken to several musicians, most recently bassist
Tom Kennedy
bass, electricb.1960
PE: At USC we have the jazz studies program. You didn't have jazz bands back in the late 50's and early 60's. You had stage bands, lab bands, the one o'clock band, the two o'clock band, because jazz was a dirty word.
AAJ: Ah, it was hidden under a different heading.
PE: Yes. Dance bands, lots of different names. Kenton, along with some key educators such as Clem DeRosa, Matt Benton, Leon Breeden, and Gene Morris dedicated themselves to trying to build what only a few schools had done. They had these summer jazz camps. My teacher heard about these when I was only six years old. He applied for me. We didn't realize the minimum age for admission was fourteen. We get to the camp and of course they tell us that I'm too young. Now my family had just driven nearly non-stop for two and a half days to get there. This was in the days before the interstate, so it was a pretty hearty drive. Kenton was smart to recognize an opportunity and they did an about-face after a short meeting. They told us that Stan wanted to hear me play that evening. They set up a private audition and Stan had a photographer there from the local newspaper. A picture of Stan and I was then used to promote the camp. Then as long as my parents were willing to stay with me in the dorm I was accepted to the camp. At this first camp there was
Keith Jarrett
pianob.1945
David Sanborn
saxophone1945 - 2024
Don Grolnick
piano1947 - 1996
Randy Brecker
trumpetb.1945
Gary Burton
vibraphoneb.1943
David Baker
trombone1931 - 2016
AAJ: Guessing the bassist stayed.
PE: The bassist stayed. The biggest mistake you can make in a big band is trying to tell the leader how to run his band. Stan loved Jerry and he never would have gotten rid of him. But he had no choice. So, Jerry is out, and Stan calls my dad. "Is Peter ready?" he asks. Now at the time I was working at the Club Harlem on a lot of R&B stuff.
AAJ: Atlantic City?
PE: Atlantic City. I was just about to start a six-week summer gig playing for the Ice Capades. Instead, we drive up to my audition with Kenton's big band at the Lincoln Center. This particular show in New York had the likes of
Woody Herman
band / ensemble / orchestra1913 - 1987
Zoot Sims
saxophone, tenor1925 - 1985
June Christy
vocals1925 - 1990
AAJ: You represented this whole different image.
PE: Yes, an entirely different image that younger people could relate to. It became more relevant. What I lacked in knowledge I made up for in youthful energy. Mostly, it was people my parents age coming to the shows, but sometimes with their eighteen-year old daughter in tow. Hey, I'm eighteen so that works. It was good fun for a time.
AAJ: Later you played with the Maynard Ferguson Big Band. Then you replaced
Alex Acuña
percussionb.1944
PE:
Jaco Pastorius
bass, electric1951 - 1987
Wayne Shorter
saxophone1933 - 2023
AAJ: Indeed I am.
PE: As it turned out, the bassist in Maynard's band and I used to play it a lot.
AAJ: Oh, you mean that you guys messed around with it.
PE: We messed around with it, right. I am twenty-three and I tell them to tell Joe that "I can play the shit out of it." Joe loves this answer.
AAJ: He likes the cockiness.
PE: Yes, that's exactly right.
AAJ: You had some prolific years and records with Weather Report. What inspired you to write a Weather Report based autobiography? And what does the title, No Beethoven, refer to?
PE: I was always taking photos and would often write down any interesting tidbits of conversation or jokes or something that Joe or Wayne or Jaco would say that were outlandish or seemed interesting. I sort of kept a journal. So, I had this box of stuff and started going through and cataloging all these great memories. Then Jaco was murdered, and Joe passed away, and I thought the story deserved telling. I was there and now armed with a photographic history. The original concept of the book was to be an electronic book for Ipad. That version has over one thousand photos and is a must see for Weather Report fans. It's stunning. An embarrassment of riches. The title refers to something Joe once said when he was bragging about his compositional prowess. He was talking about something he had just written and said, "I ain't afraid of no Beethoven." (Laughter ensues.)
AAJ: I love that. That's a great story. I opted to listen to the audiobook version and "read" it in that fashion. It made it very personal as if you were speaking directly to me, as you are now. It was also very cool to have time period tunes on there. What was the experience of doing that like?
PE: Thank you for the compliment. It was a lot of work. There is a process of pacing, slowing down or speeding up. Fortunately, I had some good help from the producer and some good direction on that. To relate one story from the book that I think sets the tone, is Joe catching me with my headphones on listening in reverie to a kind of commercial jazz. I didn't reveal the name of the artist in the book as what Joe said is kind of insulting and I'm not looking to make a cheap joke out of it. Anyways, it was funny though. We are on the plane and I haven't even played my first gig with Weather Report yet. I see Joe coming down the aisle and I know what is going to happen. He is going to want to hear what I am listening to, and my
Miles Davis
trumpet1926 - 1991
John Coltrane
saxophone1926 - 1967
AAJ: While on tour with Weather Report in Tokyo, you have the good fortunate to meet a lovely interpreter. You go on to get married and raise a family together. What can you tell us about your partner in life and your family?
PE: My wife and I have two wonderful kids. Our son is a video editor and our daughter is actress Maya Erskine. Her TV show just dropped today on Hulu. The LA Times has called it the best new show on TV. It's called Pen15. It refers to an old gag about tricking a kid into writing Pen15 on his forehead under the premise of joining a club. As in I am Pen14, you can be Pen15, etc. The poor kid is now walking around with what looks like "Penis" on his forehead. The trick of the show is that Maya and her comedy partner, Anna Konkle, are both thirty-one years old, but they are portraying thirteen-year olds. All the other actresses actually are thirteen-year old kids. As soon as we are done here, Mutsy (his wife) and I are going to turn off all the phones and binge watch all ten episodes. Mutsy is in it too. She plays the mother. The father is played by Richard Karn, who used to be in Home Improvement. He is terrific in the show. I had to show him how to hold drum sticks because he is a drummer in the show. They didn't want his character to be too successful, so I said, "that's easy, make him a drummer in a
Steely Dan
band / ensemble / orchestrab.1972
AAJ: That's terrific. My wife and I will have to check that out.
PE: I think you will enjoy it. We have now lived in this house (we were in Erskine's studio located right behind his house) for thirty-two years. Mutsy is not a musician, but she understands the things about music that I am still in need of learning.
AAJ: Such as? That's interesting that you would say that.
PE: How I am breathing when I play. She knows when I am comfortable or not comfortable. The way a certain situation or instrument will make me play. I switched drum companies almost entirely on her hearing me play a drum set one night and liking the way the drums were making me play.
AAJ: This was the switch to Tama from DW?
PE: Yes. It generally comes down to a relationship with an individual at the drum company. Sometimes those go south for whatever reason. But what is priceless, like the old Mastercard ad, is that feeling I get when I think I have found the instrument for me. I have only been married once. I made a good call on that. But it took me four times with the drums. I started out playing Slingerland. Great drums. Then I started playing Yamaha. They were wonderful drums. Played those for twenty-five years. Then DW, and that was a fun and exciting time to be with that company. But then I started "cheating," if you will. Looking for something else. I bought a couple of drum sets and was trying to find something to satisfy an itch. Not sure what it was.
AAJ: Until you find it.
PE: Yeah, every drum is different. It's not just the way the drum shell is made or the design features. There's a look and feel to the hardware. There's a rapport you get with an instrument because you are handling it almost every day. Taking it apart and putting it together. It can be annoying. So, I figure I am not going to be around that much longer, I don't want to spend my time being annoyed with this shit. Five years with Tama, and I am still just as happy with the way it sounds and the way it plays. So, as I told people at the most recent trade show (NAMM), it feels good to have this shit all settled. I don't have to spend time looking for drumsticks, drumheads, cymbals, etc. Although, I am still looking for the perfect cowbell (he said with a laugh).
AAJ: Well, it's always good to have something to aspire to. You also mentioned in your book that
Max Roach
drums1925 - 2007
Buddy Rich
drums1917 - 1987
PE: Buddy Rich was indisputably the Paganini of drums. The greatest in many ways. His kinetic energy. His ability to inspire incredible playing by people on the bandstand and to inspire reaction in the audience. Buddy was great. He was a snare drum centric player. Much of that coming out of the
Gene Krupa
drums1909 - 1973
Art Blakey
drums1919 - 1990
Elvin Jones
drums1927 - 2004
AAJ: What is it about Elvin's playing that reaches you so, and affects your own style and approach?
PE: There are a number of things about Elvin's drumming that appeal to me. The shapes and the way he played phrases. It was just more of a ballet to the shape and the notes. The drummer who shares the most with him in that regard was
Bernard Purdie
drumsb.1939
Roy Haynes
drums1926 - 2024
Louie Bellson
drums1924 - 2009
The honoring drummers who were asked to perform were
Steve Gadd
drumsb.1945
Terri Lyne Carrington
drumsb.1965
Marvin "Smitty" Smith
drumsb.1961
George Garzone
saxophone, tenorb.1950
John Lockwood
bassAAJ: So, in an odd way, Chuck's presence ended up helping you.
PE: Yes, exactly. It went great. I was now very thankful for Chuck's presence. It was like boom, and immediately we were in fifth gear. At the end Elvin and Roy Haynes stood up and hugged each other and blew me a kiss. I blew them a kiss back. Great fun.
AAJ: It doesn't get any better than that.
PE: Not for me it doesn't!
AAJ: That's a goosebumps story. What a special moment.
PE: Have you ever seen Elvin in the movie Zachariah (1971)?
AAJ: No, I don't believe so.
PE: He plays a gunslinger. The James Gang, you know, with Joe Walsh, are playing, and Elvin shoots this guy dead. Then he motions for the drummer to get off the drums and plays a drum solo. Hold on a minute.... (we then proceed to watch a five-minute scene he referred to while laughing our asses off).
AAJ: Well, I have to check out the rest of that. We talked a little bit about Jaco. I wanted to get your thoughts and memories about him?
PE: Alex Acuna provided me with an interesting insight. Jaco's sixteenth note bass playing seemed to come out of nowhere.
James Jamerson
bass, electric1938 - 1983
Chuck Rainey
bass, electricb.1940
Jerry Jemmott
bass, electricb.1946
AAJ: Zawinul was known as a tough task master. What was your relationship with him like?
PE: Joe, Jaco, and I were often like the three musketeers. We liked going out and doing things together when the band was on the road. Joe and Jaco had a very competitive aspect to their relationship. I didn't. That just wasn't my thing. Joe could be rough on you. But I stuck around. I didn't tell him to jump in a lake. I didn't quit the band, although I was tempted to a couple of times. Sometimes it could be a drag. But I always kept in mind that these guys know a lot more about this stuff than I do. I still had a lot to learn so it made sense to stick around. It's really what you need to do in order to make an impression and to be able to move on to the next level. I wasn't completely sure what my ambitions were. But I knew I wanted to keep playing with other musicians and to keep getting better. Joe once told me that if I really wanted to make it as the jazz musician I want to become then sooner or later I had to go to New York. And I did. Leaving Weather Report felt good. It was the right time. I went on tour with Steps Ahead. Prior to that, with Joe's blessings, I worked with the great jazz pianist
George Cables
pianob.1944
AAJ: What are your memories of that time in your life, and playing with
Michael Brecker
saxophone, tenor1949 - 2007
PE: Steps was cool. If I wrote a tune, we would play it. Whereas with Weather Report, I wasn't perceived as good enough. It was great. Brecker,
Mike Mainieri
vibraphoneb.1938
John Abercrombie
guitar1944 - 2017
Marc Johnson
bassb.1953
John Scofield
guitarb.1951
Bill Frisell
guitar, electricb.1951
AAJ: So, a state of limbo for just a short time.
PE: A bit of limbo but then started working a lot, particularly in Europe. The ECM affiliation started. My own trio records and the stuff with
Jan Garbarek
saxophoneb.1947
Miroslav Vitous
bassb.1947
Kenny Wheeler
flugelhorn1930 - 2014
AAJ: That's impressive. And new music on the horizon.
PE: Yes, we have done three Dr. Um albums now. My return to fusion. This is with pianist
John Beasley
piano
Bob Sheppard
saxophone, tenorb.1952
"
data-original-title="" title="">Benjamin Shepherd. AAJ: I had the pleasure of seeing your quartet recently at the Baked Potato in Hollywood. There seems to be an innate sense of chemistry at play there. I can now say that it is medically proven that Dr. Um is good for the ears. What is the balance between just letting it flow, and at the same time wanting to be creative and push the envelope?
PE: Hey, I like that! The main thing is that we aren't fighting each other. We aren't fighting the music. If someone takes it in a particular direction, we can either go there or not, but we aren't going to fight it. When I was younger that might have been different. We trust each other and that is what makes any good band work. Especially in a small group that is improvisational. That you trust the choices that the other guy makes. We are just listening to where the conversation goes.
AAJ: With a little luck that directional compass varies from night to night.
PE: Well, we hope. Then too, a lot of tunes you don't need to reinvent the wheel every time you play it either. There is a beauty to trusting the material. Bob Sheppard, when we first started playing out, was just kind of noodling a lot. I would ask him what he was doing, and he would tell me that he wasn't sure what he should be playing. I would tell him to just stop playing and to sit down. You don't need a horn player playing all the time to sell what we are doing. It's a voice but nobody should be playing all the time. Particularly the horns. Staying away from the bass solo, now it's the drum solo, now it's the sax solo thing. Next tune same thing. That gets pretty boring. It's not a democracy. Everyone doesn't need to solo.
AAJ: It can get pretty predictable.
PE: It does. Really, instead, it's best going back to the old Weather Report thing, "We never solo, we always solo." If you think about it, what shares that trait? Dixieland. Good New Orleans jazz. It's just a group thing and the really good bands are doing that. It goes back to listening. I tell my students that we can take this four-year course of study down to one sentence if you want. Naturally, they want to know what that is. It is simply playing what you want to hear. Don't play what you think he wants to hear, or that some other person wants to hear. That's when you get into trouble. What do you want it to sound like? Then do it. There's a great story involving Zawinul and the guitarist in one of his bands. They finished recording a tune in the studio and Joe wanted to take a listen. The guy says, "Well, if you are going to use that take then I want to redo my solo." Joe, of course, wants to know why. The guy says, "Well, I don't like what I played." Joe replies, in what I think is a brilliant way, and says, "Well if you don't like what you played, why did you play it?" Which is the thing. Take responsibility for what you play. It's really simple.
AAJ: How did the Dr. Um project get started?
PE: Well, I wanted to get back to doing some fusion and I met with Beasley to talk about some ideas and see if we could figure out an interesting project. John and I have worked together for years. I ended up deciding to do my own funk album called The Lost Pages. The concept was to give a second listen to some tunes that I thought deserved to be heard. I was interested in doing this tune of Wayne's, that as far as I knew had never been recorded. I had saved it all these years and pulled it out of the filing cabinet for the purpose of this meeting. Then I couldn't find it. I tore the house apart looking for it, I never did find it. I still haven't found it. It was kind of the inspiration for the album, but I could never find the tune. I pulled out an old Zawinul tune, John had a couple of tunes, I had a couple, and we went from there. Then we did Second Opinion, which is all original music, with the exception of one
Henry Mancini
composer / conductor1924 - 1994
Damian Erskine
bass, electricb.1973
Tags
SoCal Jazz
Peter Erskine
Jim Worsley
United States
California
Los Angeles
Weather Report
Steps Ahead
Stan Kenton
Maynard Ferguson
Shelly Berg
Diana Krall
Charles Fambrough
Zawinul
bob mintzer
Alan Pasqua
Darek Oles
Will Kennedy
Patrice Rushen
Alphonso Johnson
Paul Jackson Jr.
Chick Webb
Jon Faddis
wynton marsalis
duke ellington
Woody Herman
Count Basie
Tom Kennedy
Keith Jarrett
David Sanborn
Lou Marini Jr.
Don Grolnick
randy brecker
Gary Burton
David Baker
Jerry McKenzie
Zoot Sims
June Christy
Alex Acuna
Jaco Pastorius
Wayne Shorter
Miles Davis
John Coltrane
steely dan
Max Roach
Buddy Rich
Gene Krupa
Art Blakey
Elvin Jones
Bernard Purdie
Roy Haynes
Louis Bellson
Steve Gadd
Terri Lyne Carrington
Marvin "Smitty" Smith
George Garzone
John Lockwood
Joe Walsh
James Jamerson
Chuck Rainey
Jerry Jemmott
George Cables
Michael Brecker
Mike Maineri
John Abercrombie
Marc Johnson
John Scofield
Bill Frisell
Kenny Wheeler
John Beasley
Bob Sheppard
Benjamin Shepherd
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Damian Erskine
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